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 Hornady HAP projectiles
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
687 Posts

Posted - Jun 22 2016 :  15:47:53  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hornady Action Pistol (HAP) projectiles are designed to function flawlessly in automatic pistols used in action pistol competitions. There is no exposed lead, and the features Hornady uses in other projectiles to enhance expansion are absent from these. Still in all, I wonder how they expand.

Facilities permitting, I plan to try firing some of these projectiles in calibers seen in action pistol competition. Has anyone already done this? Because I don't have the means to calibrate and set up ballistic gelatin blocks, I'll probably end up using blocks of water-saturated newsprint. The calibers I intend to use are 9x19mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. I'd LOVE to test them in .38 Super & 10mm, but I don't own firearms so chambered.

Comparison will be made against factory JHP and FMJ rounds, as well as handloads identical in all respects except that one batch will shoot HAP projectiles and the other will shoot JHP projectiles. Penetration will be measured, as will expansion (if any).

If anyone has test-fired handloads with the HAPs and collected measured data, I would be interested in hearing/reading about them.

Thanks.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Jun 23 2016 22:21:22

Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
687 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2016 :  13:45:49  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
<crickets chirping> Okay, then, off to the test field...

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2016 :  17:07:55  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, they have a swaged core and a full metal jacket. I'd be shocked if they use anything different than the standard 2% Antimonial lead for the core. I don't think you will be getting any terminal effect surprises at the range. It is very probable they hit like military hardball and smush when they hit something hard.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2762 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2016 :  17:17:54  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to Hornady, they have a swagged lead core and are designed similar to the XTP without the cannelure and the skiving inside the jacked.

I would think if the hole in the point does not get stopped up, they should expand some, but with the jacket tearing erratically without skives.

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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2016 :  20:46:39  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WonderMan4

According to Hornady, they have a swagged lead core and are designed similar to the XTP without the cannelure and the skiving inside the jacked.

I would think if the hole in the point does not get stopped up, they should expand some, but with the jacket tearing erratically without skives.





The HAPs are available in a smooth truncated flat nose, an RNFP or an HP. I did get a surprise in Hornady specifications on the HAP, the core is PURE lead. Here is specifications from Hornady:

http://www.hornady.com/store/hap-hornady-action-pistol

Expect the soft pure lead to splatter significantly when the jacket ruptures on impact. Unfortunately, increased splatter from pure lead softness in the jacket increases toxic exposure to lead. I'd bet the cost of Antimony for hardness and Tin for malleability was a significant factor in the core composition. There is a lot better choices in bullets. Cast bullets in #2 alloy don't splatter and generally have picture perfect mushroom expansion on meat with zero bullet weight loss.


Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.

Edited by - Onondaga on Jun 23 2016 21:07:28
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
687 Posts

Posted - Jun 23 2016 :  23:12:16  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only configuration I'M seeing for the HAPs is a FMJ Truncated Cone with enough of a divot in the nose for it to be correctly called a hollow point. I don't see a truncated flat nose nor a Round Nose Flat Point mentioned in their descriptions nor in the illustrations. The pure lead core, in addition to being less expensive, would also lend itself to easier deformation when the projectile impacts the target. If the target is cardboard or paper, this is of no importance. If the target is a steel plate, on the other hand, a glancing hit from a projectile with a pure lead core and a thin(ner) copper jacket may deform on impact enough to impart more of its kinetic energy to the plate and send it down, whereas a sturdier jacketed hollow point might not deform enough to do anything but glance off, leaving the plate in the upright position.

I agree that the market is roth with jacketed hollow points and jacketed soft-points that are better suited for use in hunting or personal defense, but that was never a point of contention. MY only interest was in determining the terminal behaviour of HAPs when fired into a semi-solid medium from which they may be recovered.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - Jun 24 2016 :  04:07:17  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kosh75287

The pictures are in the Hornady link I provided above by shapes mentioned and caliber, scroll down and look closely again.

If you are concerned and looking for the energy dissipation on impact you mention, consider plated Rainier LeadSafe Bullets.

The terminal behavior of the HAPs will have no surprises, there is nothing radically new or different about them except the poor choice of the softest core metal that will make them splatter more than most jacketed bullets and less than if they were plated.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
687 Posts

Posted - Jun 24 2016 :  11:06:52  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I've scrolled down and looked closely again. I'm STILL not seeing the pictures in the HORNADY link you provided above, and can find no projectiles marked "HAP" that have configurations other than I one I'VE provided above. In any case, if the HAPs are nothing more than an especially fragile hollow-point, I think we learned our lesson(s) on THAT point of inquiry 4 decades ago with Super-Vel.

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - Jun 24 2016 :  13:23:59  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kosh75287

Scroll down to the 10mm HAPs, SKU: 400421 on the Hornady link, those are clearly RNFP, the others are truncated.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Kosh75287
Advanced Member



USA
687 Posts

Posted - Jun 27 2016 :  21:54:25  Show Profile Send Kosh75287 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The image is cleaarly RNFP, but the cut-away view clearly is not. Further, the answer to my inquiry to Hornady concerning the configuration of HAP projectiles in all calibers supports my belief that they are all constructed as hollow points only, and not "available in a smooth truncated flat nose, an RNFP [as well as] an HP", as you previously asserted. My assessment that the HAP is available in hollow-point form only is further supported by Hornady in the reply I received from them today, thus:

quote:
"The ogive profiles will vary from caliber to caliber, however the tip will be the same for every HAP bullet. There is a slight hollow cavity, however the jacket extends up and slightly over the tip of the bullet to protect the lead. If you’re looking for an expanding projectile you’ll want to opt for our line of XTP offerings.

Thanks again,"

God bless Jeff Cooper

Carpe SCOTCH!

Edited by - Kosh75287 on Jun 27 2016 21:56:08
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