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Tommy B
Advanced Member



USA
724 Posts

Posted - Jul 25 2006 :  01:15:04  Show Profile Send Tommy B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good stuff, keep them pics coming.


AKA "7mm Assassin"
Iím not a hunter, Iím a population control specialist!
Long distance call? Dial 1-900-338-LAPUA
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Aug 03 2006 :  22:18:35  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We are having a group buy of 1000 gr soft jacketed
bullets for 12ga from Hawk. $2.10 each.Contact
me for details.Need order of 1000 total for them to
make dies and start.Got commitment for 400
already.Let me know if interested.WE are also getting a replica 1887 12ga lever gun to test our cases on.Modern strong
forged steel construction.Ed.

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2006 :  00:55:05  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We got recoil now-Got a 1050 gr
Bridger over 2200 fps in the Savage.
I took the hollow base 750 gr Bridgers
made for me, and wedged in .500 caliber
slugs(I took out of 12ga sabot)in the base.
Added 300 gr. I was going to melt lead and put in,
but this was easier about 5 seconds,
after 15 seconds shortening nose on grinder
of .500 slug.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Aug 24 2006 :  11:11:05  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed

Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Aug 31 2006 :  23:59:20  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doing more research at someones suggestion on the
Saiga-12 shotgun. It has strong rotary bolt, and alloy
barrel. Has 3 inch chamber and shortened version of our
case should allow velocities like I get with NEF or
better. Loading brass cases you would have to crimp
slugs good so no sharp corner interferes with
feeding.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2006 :  00:40:01  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of replica 1887 12 ga levergun we
are testing brass cases in.Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Sep 16 2006 :  03:17:33  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I got Rocky Mtn turned 12ga cases, and am
developing loads. They are 2 7/8 inches
long are for use in NEF and shortened
in 1887. These cases have shotgun
primers. Now these cases with shotgun primers and the two cases of ours we put small primers in don't fire the slow rifle powder loads
reliably,like cases with bmg primers.
Our testing is with 600 hardened Dixie slugs.
So I have and am testing slow shotgun powder and fast rifle.I tested 5 shotgun powders and
the primers fires then ok but the quick peak pressure when loads increased to get velocity
wanted in NEF caused too much case expansion just ahead of the base.Cases ejected ok but
that expansion and resizing will ruin cases
in a couple shots.These cases have a real thick base, and are machined to glass smooth finish.Nice cases.
I now testing AA1680 Ball and it looks good.
Have got loads up to 105 gr with 2 wads in
the Rocky Mtn case, and only .002 expansion
of case ahead of base. Will chrono next and
expect it to get velocity we want in NEF.
Nice thing about this testing is that same loads will work in shortened 87 case by just
using less wad column.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2006 :  12:17:53  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got the NEF chambered for long case. And remember it
has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
work up if pressures allow.Ed.


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 14 2006 :  03:56:04  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I got the hammer on 87 beefed up to fire big primers.
Still testing plastic and turned cases in 87.
We are testing small primers with 10gr starter powder(Blue
Dot) anD RE-7 and 15.Plastic cases max is 90gr RE-7 with
10 gr starter, turned brass case 110gr RE-7 10 gr starter.
WE had to go to starter powder as we was getting
delayed ignition and squib loads.
Testing the cases,plastic and brass with small
primers and starter powder ... A big find. IE, we can't do
this for reliable ignition if the cases
are ballon head, whether plastic or brass.The cases must have the area between side and
the primer at least .200 thick.One reason is
strength. And some plastic I have measured is
only about .060 thick there and the protrusion
in the center for primer is .140 above that
thickness.. So 10 gr of starter powder is
in a groove so to speak and not on top of primer!!! That isn't good. I cut the cases
off at the brass base, poured in 10 gr
of flake powder and saw how it laid
in the case. Nice thing is that a most brands of cases are thick enough, like Win AAs.
So far RE-15 and Blue Dot starter looks
very good, and easy on cases.Velocity as good as RE-7.Will keep testing and I ran out of
RE-12 and the shops have no more, So
it will be RE-15 which I think turning
out best, or RE-7 in smaller
amounts.Ed.


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 25 2006 :  22:07:56  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been testing IMR-4759. No ignition problems.
Ignition is instant with regular primers.
Don't need Blue Dot starter powder,
like we had to do with RE-7 and RE-15
for good reliable ignition.We did 4759 in
plastic cases first.600 gr slug. I got a
nice working roll crimper attachment
for drill press for crimping slugs.
That sure makes it easy, and perfect crimp.
In 2 & 3/4 plastic cases with loaded
length of about 2.35 inches got to 80gr.
That's max as you must leave room for
about 3/8 wads or cushion wad. Some cases
may only hold 75 grains max due to
the case construction.Powder is less dense
than RE-15. 1650 plus fps in 24 inch barrel.
In 3 inch cases, loaded length about 2.6
inches, got to 95 grs max, 1800 plus fps.
Some cases may only hold 90 gr due to
case construction. Cushion is
a half inch felt wad or equivalent.
Both lengths start down and go up
if pressures allow. 60 gr short case,70 long.
This powder being faster than RE-15 you must
have a little cushion in the way of felt wads
or plastic cushion wads.With slower RE-15
a card wad works ok as powder started slower.
The powder burning must build pressure
to open crimp without a to high pressure spike.
This bulky powder with reliable ignition
is a winner.Then we tested 3" Rocky Mtn brass
cases, Got max load of 105 gr, and 1900 plus
fps. In few weeks will get the 4759 and RE-15
loads pressure tested.Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 28 2006 :  17:32:23  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now these loads are for only heavy barreled
steel action guns like the NEF Ultra 12,
or like my Savage with heavy barrel added.
I am getting heavy barrel on the 87 and
it will be long.There are some turn bolt
locking lug pumpguns that would work
with heavy barrels.There is a large
12ga Tula bolt action, but it's not imported.
This week if weather allows(no rain)
I will be firing first test loads of my
700HE long belted case.Ed.



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 02 2006 :  21:46:26  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found an O/U that would handle the 4759 3"
loads. It is the Zoli Z-Sport. Expensive,
all alloy steel construction, tested to
about 100k. That's not a missprint.Their
site shows testing at the Italian proof house
of 8000 bar.That's 7-8 times regular shotgun
working loads.Pic of action below. It handling that extreme pressure, means that other quality
O/U like Ruger may handle 4759 loads.Ed



Ed Hubel

Edited by - hubel458 on Nov 03 2006 00:48:25
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 11 2006 :  03:20:25  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
am working on
scaling up falling block to handle
700NE, 600Ne. 12ga FH, etc.We wanted to go to bigger 4bore size copy of Wickcliffe
but the short hammer carried on the breech
is too light to fire big primers.and hammer spring can't be made heavier either.So I am
drawing one scaled up to 12ga and 700NE size.
If used with our 12ga FH case will have to have
primer bushing........
SO- today the boy and I set up a mill.
And we along with old machinist guy couple miles away will build a model scaled up with
basic action and breech block designed to work with lever,toggle link. 1.25" barrel thread.

And for the 4bore size falling block, the
HSFB, 1.5 barrel thread, 2' wide action we
will combine a little from Stevens 44 1/2,
Ruger #1, Win 85, Sharps highpower falling
block. The Wickcliff copies a lot in its breech
from the Stevens.We will use a big hammer in the
rear of action with heavy springs,
to fire big primers. Half cock safety.Those
we appropriated from other break actions and
along with trigger and a lever are on
the way from
Gun Parts.Ed.




Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 13 2006 :  21:18:09  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hot damnn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed


Ed Hubel
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kount_zer0
Starting Member

4 Posts

Posted - Nov 14 2006 :  02:18:56  Show Profile Send kount_zer0 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow! Perhaps a .338 DU sabot at 5k fps is in your future.

Tanks don't taste like chikin. They are dark meat. Destroyers are nice wrapped in a whole LOTTA bacon.
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