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 308 win Case volume?
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2017 :  10:44:33  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I loaded up a bunch of range pick up Lake City brass. From what I understand is that the cases hold @ 3 less grains of powder than RP brass because of the thickness.

I went to the Ramshot reloading data guide for Ramshot TAC powder

150 HDY BT-FMJ 42.4 2,715 47.1 2,957 61,478 2.735

I just wanted good shooting plinking. So I loaded up 200 rounds with 46.6 to be under the 47.1 I used the Dillon 550 to load with standard large rifle primers.

Because of the case volume I don't think that it will be a problem, but............. Should I pull them all and go lower? 30 cal is a bigger bore and 150 is low weight

WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2017 :  14:02:51  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't ran across this with the 308 Win, but I have had experiences in the 30-06 with LC brass from the 60s.

Generally, I had to unload 2 grns of powder (H4895) when I used RP or milspec brass instead of WW brass.

If I loaded them all the same, the pressures would soar in both of the RP and LC brass. Learned that the hard way.

The only way to tell for sure is to check the water weight that each will hold.
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2017 :  14:26:17  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found this:

The most important thing to remember about military brass is that the internal capacity will probably be less than commercial .308 Win brass, because military brass often has thicker webs or case walls.

Montana Marine reports his fire-formed mil surp cases hold 56 grains of H20 on average compared to 58 grains for fire-formed Winchester. Given the reduced capacity of military brass, you should reduce posted max loads by 1.5 grains when loading with Lake City or most other mil surp brass.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
812 Posts

Posted - Sep 07 2017 :  09:11:18  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Quickload shows you're good to pull the trigger on them.

I ran the #'s and reduced case capacity from 56 to 53 and 46.6gr of TAC came out to almost 57,000 psi with 2.800" coal and 59,545 psi with 2.750" coal.

As a side note... 308 Military brass is indeed thicker and has less capacity but....
5.56 L.C. brass has a hair more capacity than most commercial 223rem brass.


Treat that trigger like itís your first date, not like youíve been married to it for 20 years.

Edited by - Zero333 on Sep 07 2017 09:12:28
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 07 2017 :  10:56:35  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shouldn't this be turned around because the shorter coal would have less pressure? Anyway Ramshot listed the load to be 2.735 inches

57,000 psi with 2.800" coal and 59,545 psi with 2.750" coal.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
812 Posts

Posted - Sep 08 2017 :  08:46:12  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The deeper the bullet is seated in the case the less volume you have in the case left over for powder.

Not unlike reducing it's capacity.

Treat that trigger like itís your first date, not like youíve been married to it for 20 years.
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 08 2017 :  12:09:09  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Longer jump to the lands makes for less pressure.

But anyway I think that my buddy bought a bad used Savage 12 BVSS
12 Varmint Series 26 inch 308 win from Cabela's. The rifle looks beautiful. So we went to the range and I wish photobucket would not have quit hosting pictures. First we sighted in at 50 yrds and then moved out to 200 to dial it in for an upcoming antelope hunt.

Factory Remington Core-lokt 150 psp. We shot three boxes and I noticed pretty flat primers and cratering around the firing pin. You can feel it on your finger nail. Base of the cases were expanded 3-4 thousandths. So then we switched over to my TAC reloads of 46.6 gr and Nosler 150 fmj Totally flat primers and we shot just two.

I have never seen pressure signs with factory ammo like that. I think something is not right with that rifle and I will be checking the distance to the lands
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Sep 08 2017 :  12:46:58  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I heard others say it and I have found first hand for myself that Savage rifles are notoriously short throated.

I would bet that there is not much jump in that Model 12.
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
812 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  07:12:17  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes like Wonderman4 said... Many of my Savages have shorter throats but the real problem is the leade is very tight and needs a couple hundred rounds before it loosens and pressure signs are relieved.

I also had one chamber that was a bit too rough so I polished it inside a bit with polishing compound on a felt tip screwed onto a rod chucked on a cordless. Had to be creative to come up with something that would do the job.


Budlight... Try postimage.org

It's a million times better the Photobucket. No lags and other junk. It's awesome. It's free.


Treat that trigger like itís your first date, not like youíve been married to it for 20 years.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  07:50:49  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2nd on the postimage.org
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  11:35:51  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For anyone wanting a chamber polishing tool, these Flex Hones work great.

http://www.brushresearch.com/brushes.php?c2=183
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  14:51:46  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He brought his Savage back over this morning and we did some measuring. He was out of the 150 Rem Core-lokt. But I had loaded the 150 Hornaday to 2.780 and it was indeed touching the lands. Because of the flatness of the primer and that they are plinking rounds. I just went ahead and seated them back to the 2.735. that is a big difference.

He just called back the 46.6 rounds are no longer flattening the primer and appear to be even less flattened than the factory core lokt. So he is going to take it back to cabela's because it is making a noise from inside the bolt. I'm wondering if the cratering of the primer around the firing pin hurt it I will check out the picture hosting
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  15:21:07  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote

But anyway this is military range brass with the same volume as a Lake city. 46.6 grains of TAC at 2.780 length



slight cratering


Edited by - budlight on Sep 09 2017 15:32:44
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2851 Posts

Posted - Sep 09 2017 :  16:51:44  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I got into an argument with an idiot one time that insisted the only way to deal with over pressure is to reduce the powder charge. He could not understand the concept of seating the bullet deeper to solve a problem such as that.

Any way, it was just wasted words as he knew his way was the only way. Several things can cause over pressure and seating depth can definitely be one of the causes.

Good work budlight.
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