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bobnob
Senior Member



Australia
438 Posts

Posted - Aug 26 2017 :  23:23:34  Show Profile Send bobnob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thought I'd share some details and get some feedback on a build I've just committed to.

Looking for a great all-rounder in this one. A relatively compact - though not lightweight - hunting rifle that's capable of stretching the legs out to one kilometre when I'm after a bit of fun.

Donor action is a Vanguard short action stainless steel. Current chambering is a (probably) shot-out 22-250. I'm not making the mistake of shooting it in case it is too accurate to dismantle!

By the look of it this rifle has been floating around in the bed of the truck with fence posts and kelpies for a few years. It's pretty rough...







The rifle seems mechanically very sound however. While is scratched and marred in places and even has a little surface rust, everything looks and feels solid and functions fine.

Trigger seems to have been worked as it's light and crisp with a great feel; I reckon about 1.5 pounds so that's a win.

Anyway the purpose of the rifle will be a good deal of carrying and shooting at pigs mainly, as well as some deer and goats. There will be some shooting offhand, some prone and some with improvised rests; logs, trees etc.

It will also be used to shoot from the truck a good bit as well at times. Sometimes when it's just an extermination job on pigs I will shoot from the vehicle.

Chambering will be 243 AI. Barrel is a 1-7" twist Hardy stainless bbl from NZ. I aim to shoot the Sierra 110g SMK for the long game, and possibly the Berger 105 Hunting VLD or Hornady 105g BTHP for more general work.

Will probably finish the barrel around 21-22" and possibly a magnum or light varmint contour.

The horrible plastic stock on it will go. Maybe a McMillan or Manners? Looking for something not too bulky or heavy. It's not a bench gun. Perhaps a McM Classic or Game Scout. Thoughts?

The donor is off at the 'smith now. Waiting on the bbl order to arrive from New Zealand, will be a few weeks yet.

I'll update when it progresses but keen to hear any thoughts, especially around loading and shooting the 243 AI.

Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
4690 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  06:51:22  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice one Bob, should do the job just fine! I'm a Bell and Carlson guy, so this is what I would recommend, I also like the look of the new competition stock:

https://www.bellandcarlson.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1041

I would go with the 22" barrel too. Seems like the sweet spot for a lot of rounds. Might also give you the edge on the long shots. I've always had good luck with DNZ scope mounts (not sure if you are running a 30mm or 1 inch tube):

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/759311/dnz-products-game-reaper-1-piece-scope-base-with-1-integral-rings-howa-1500-weatherby-vanguard-short-action-matte-medium

Also looks like ADI 2213 might be the ticket for the heavy pills:

Cartridge : .243 Ackley Imp
Bullet : .243, 115, Berger Hunt VLD G7 #24430
Useable Case Capaci: 49.306 grain H2O = 3.201 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.710 inch = 68.83 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : ADI AR 2213

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 35.68 2250 1292 28341 10061 85.2 1.591
-18.0 80 36.57 2308 1361 30199 10439 86.7 1.551
-16.0 82 37.46 2367 1431 32183 10811 88.2 1.510
-14.0 83 38.36 2427 1504 34299 11176 89.6 1.471
-12.0 85 39.25 2487 1579 36557 11530 90.9 1.432
-10.0 87 40.14 2547 1657 38966 11874 92.2 1.389
-08.0 89 41.03 2608 1736 41548 12205 93.3 1.347
-06.0 91 41.92 2668 1818 44306 12522 94.4 1.306
-04.0 93 42.82 2729 1902 47260 12824 95.4 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 95 43.71 2791 1989 50423 13108 96.3 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 44.60 2852 2077 53816 13373 97.1 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 99 45.49 2913 2167 57458 13618 97.9 1.155 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 101 46.38 2974 2259 61374 13840 98.5 1.120 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 103 47.28 3036 2353 65588 14040 99.0 1.087 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 105 48.17 3097 2449 70128 14214 99.4 1.054 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 107 49.06 3158 2547 75028 14363 99.7 1.023 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 97 44.60 3004 2305 64906 13301 100.0 1.098 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 97 44.60 2652 1796 44034 12671 89.6 1.307

Good luck and stay safe!
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  09:57:13  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think a 1 in 7 is a bit fast. 1 in 8 may be better.
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  13:33:50  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

I think a 1 in 7 is a bit fast. 1 in 8 may be better.



Weeeeeeellll????Maybe. I've never thought an over stabilized bullet to be a problem and it does guarantee those extra heavy bullet will stabilize.

My biggest question though is just how much improvement can one get from an "AI" job on a .243? The case is already quite straight with not much taper and the neck is already quite short so blowing the shoulder out isn't option.
Frankly, very few cartridges gain much by improving, the .257 Bob and 7x57 instantly coming to mind. Even the popular .280 AI doesn't gain all that much from a properly loaded standard .280 Remington. Remington kept pressures down in the .280 to keep their pump and semi-auto rifles happy. bad move on a good cartridge. FWIW, I can load a 150 gr. Nosler PT to within 100 FPS of Nosler's 140 gr. using IMR 7828SC with no pressure signs.

I don't think the velocity gain is worth the trouble but there may or may not be an improvement in accuracy. Whether it's worth the trouble only you can decide.
Paul B.
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bobnob
Senior Member



Australia
438 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  15:41:28  Show Profile Send bobnob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks gents.

Paul I'm not really chasing extra speed with the AI. More about case life and using neck-sized-only fire formed brass.

I actually nearly went 6mm Creedmoor but that brass is still hard to get here. Even 6.5 Creed is patchy and very expensive. 243 brass is cheap and easy to get.

Thanks for the QL Nick. I was thinking AR2213 and 2209 would cover everything. Looks like 2213 will be the shot once brass has been formed.

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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
4690 Posts

Posted - Aug 27 2017 :  16:52:04  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bobnob

Thanks gents.

Paul I'm not really chasing extra speed with the AI. More about case life and using neck-sized-only fire formed brass.

I actually nearly went 6mm Creedmoor but that brass is still hard to get here. Even 6.5 Creed is patchy and very expensive. 243 brass is cheap and easy to get.

Thanks for the QL Nick. I was thinking AR2213 and 2209 would cover everything. Looks like 2213 will be the shot once brass has been formed.





Yup, that 2213, with the 115 gr, looks like a zipper!!!!! Be nice to knock down some fox about 1000 m!
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ethmoid1999
Advanced Member



USA
4398 Posts

Posted - Aug 28 2017 :  22:29:10  Show Profile Send ethmoid1999 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bob, Sorry to ask. We are seeing a lot of press about oppressive gun control in Australia. Can you tell us the truth? Thanks, Mike
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bobnob
Senior Member



Australia
438 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  07:25:34  Show Profile Send bobnob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mike, there's an agenda by some parts of politics for sure. It's hard sometimes being a shooter and hunter here. Not so much out here in the bush but a lot of the people in the cities look at you like you have two heads when you say you like guns.

The rules around owning and using guns are pretty strict. And depending on what jurisdiction you're in, the compliance regime can be downright oppressive.

Still, if you can work within all of the rules, there are abundant hunting opportunities, providing you network well. There's certainly nothing like bag limits or the need to get tags for game. The only exception to that I can think is some birds like ducks as well as hog deer, which is fair enough because they exist only in very small numbers.

We are served pretty well by a small number of pro gun and pro hunting politicians who generally inject a little balance into the public debate.

Hard going though. This country seems to be going very liberal. Having said that, I do love my country.

Edited by - bobnob on Aug 29 2017 07:27:22
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ethmoid1999
Advanced Member



USA
4398 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  09:03:22  Show Profile Send ethmoid1999 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand Bob. I'm afraid the free world has much to learn about the right to keep and bear arms. I'm afraid they are going to learn the hard way from the followers of Muhammad. Every nation has strict rules regarding the importation of plants,animals, and microbes. It seems they have all denied that also should apply to humans. Most are genetically not isolated but they are certainly behaviorally isolated.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  12:28:00  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really don't think you will get that much more case life from a .243AI. .243 Win is the one and only case that I really have to watch case neck wall thickness as my rifle has a tight neck. I believe in .257AI, 6.5x55AI and 7x57AI but I don't think the .243AI will get you as much gain as it is already quite straight unlike the prior ones I listed. I vote no...lol...
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bobnob
Senior Member



Australia
438 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  15:52:47  Show Profile Send bobnob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fair enough Shasta. It will be a bit of an experiment. I certainly found my 250 Sav AI to be a delight, neck sizing only the cases lasted and lasted, and I don't remember ever trimming.

We'll see how the 243 AI fares. I won't be hot rodding it. I'll aim for standard, 24" bbl 243 Win speeds from the AI version in the 21-22" bbl.
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member



USA
9125 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2017 :  19:02:22  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That you probably will accomplish. (+)50-75 fps is about what you should get with the 243AI case. That should make the 22" barrel in AI = to the 24" std case. Now maybe if you were doing a 6MM AI, but darn that's a short action...time will tell if the effort is worth the results.
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2017 :  10:08:23  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that you didn't buy the barrel yet! I'm really a fan of my 26 inch 243 Rem 700 SPS Varminter with a 2 inch Holland muzzle brake.

It is really a problem getting the heavy .243 bullets going to higher velocity.

My powders of choice are the new Reloader 26 and the Hodgdon Superformance.

All I do is neck size my 243 win. I have found from Chrono testing my 257Roberts AI that just using the full powered load in the case to be fire formed produced identical velocity. So there is no reason to fire form and then reload at the AI reloading specs.

Edited by - budlight on Sep 06 2017 10:12:42
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3970 Posts

Posted - Sep 06 2017 :  18:52:57  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ethmoid1999

I understand Bob. I'm afraid the free world has much to learn about the right to keep and bear arms. I'm afraid they are going to learn the hard way from the followers of Muhammad. Every nation has strict rules regarding the importation of plants,animals, and microbes. It seems they have all denied that also should apply to humans. Most are genetically not isolated but they are certainly behaviorally isolated.



There is a law that was passed way back in 1952 that would have specifically banned Muslims due to them considering sharia law over our Constitution. Makes me mad as hell that our illustrious leaders refuse to enforce that law.
Paul B.
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bobnob
Senior Member



Australia
438 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  16:27:59  Show Profile Send bobnob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by budlight

I hope that you didn't buy the barrel yet! I'm really a fan of my 26 inch 243 Rem 700 SPS Varminter with a 2 inch Holland muzzle brake.

It is really a problem getting the heavy .243 bullets going to higher velocity.

My powders of choice are the new Reloader 26 and the Hodgdon Superformance.

All I do is neck size my 243 win. I have found from Chrono testing my 257Roberts AI that just using the full powered load in the case to be fire formed produced identical velocity. So there is no reason to fire form and then reload at the AI reloading specs.



Budlight the barrel has been ordered but the only specs at this stage are that it is a 6mm, 7-twist, magnum contour in stainless.

I am still inclined to finish it around 21.5 inches. I believe it will balance and carry well that way. It will be also useful for the frequent instances where I am shooting from a vehicle.

Still haven't decided which way to go for the scope. I don't want the Hubble Telescope, something reasonably modest in weight and size. I like MilDot reticles and for banging steel and predators at long range it will have some kind of ele and windage turrets.

At first blush I will drop it into the Howa Hogue Varmint stock. It will get me going until I decide what to do long term. I think ultimately I may end up with a McMillan Game Scout but we will see.
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budlight
Advanced Member



USA
1659 Posts

Posted - Sep 15 2017 :  20:38:05  Show Profile Send budlight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
maybe you should read this.

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html
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