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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 08 2017 :  18:06:11  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi again.
You guys remember I was telling you about my 6mm rem shooting tight groups but always with some flyers.... today I was looking at my targets and something looks fishy (to me anyway)... seems like the flyer is always at the same spot, or close to...
these 3 groups are the same recipe, but different seating depths and different dates
(I'm now thinking that my beloved el cheapo BSA fix 25x Japan had given up on me....( I don't know maybe the reticule is moving around ? ))
what do you think is happening here ?
thanks
stef




Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - May 08 2017 :  18:44:16  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Scope problems causing fliers are more varied than what you show and more erratic. Your scope is fine or it would shoot all over the place most the time.

See if you can establish a pattern that includes which shots are fliers. Number your shots in order on the target. If you find a pattern that throws a flier in a specific shot like the first or the last shots, this is related to bore finish condition and/or bore temperature.

Bore polishing. maintenance and timing of your shots to allow cooling will help.

It would be odd but a repeated cyclical change in bench form will also do what you are showing. Some shooters hold tighter on the first shot before their form falls in line. Or, they tighten up at the end of the string and launch a flier.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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Willie T
Average Member

127 Posts

Posted - May 08 2017 :  21:23:38  Show Profile Send Willie T a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you overlay all 3 targets you have two distinct groups. The first thing I would suspect is bedding. An action that is moving around just a smudge can sometimes have that effect. Re torque your action screws and see if it settles down. If that does not help, seperate the stock from the action and put a light coat of chalk or blacking on the action and reassemble. Torque everything down then take it back apart. It will show where the contact points are and what your fit is like. I would also check the scope for parallax. I have no experience with bsa scopes but if you have parallax at the range you are shooting an inconsistent mount could also be the culprit.

Willie T---Lone Star State
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Rapidrob
Senior Member

USA
443 Posts

Posted - May 08 2017 :  23:03:04  Show Profile Send Rapidrob a Private Message  Reply with Quote
2ND on bedding/barrel node problem. Take a dollar bill and insert it 4 1/2" from the muzzle under the barrel and between the stock. If the gap is already there,move the bill back and forth,does it bind anywhere in front or rear of where it is?
If you find the barrel is free floating,go back to the 4 1/2" from the muzzle and fold the bill in half.Dose it start to bind? If not fold it again until it does bind.
Shoot the rifle. Are the groups better or worse? If better/worse you have a bedding problem.
Do the chalk test or if not sure use lay-out fluid and look for scrape marks.
How long between shots? Heat can also be a problem with binding.
Have you tried your loads at 200 yards?

Gulf of Tonkin Yacht Club
NRA Endowment Member
President NM MILSURPS
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Zero333
Advanced Member



Canada
717 Posts

Posted - May 09 2017 :  08:06:44  Show Profile Send Zero333 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is the stock pillar bedded ?


Treat that trigger like it’s your first date, not like you’ve been married to it for 20 years.
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 09 2017 :  18:37:38  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ok. I think I found the problem.... hopefully I will know once I shoot the gun. but yes it was probably the bedding

the barrel was free floating but barely and it has a cheap stock, so I wanted a bigger gap. after sanding the stock (with the barrel on), I proceeded to try rocking around the action, and Yes using good strength, I could feel a tiny gap. I had done a partial bedding around the recoil lug and in the back, at the tang and at trigger piece where the screw goes, and this is where it was missing some bedding compound. so I just added more compound underneath the trigger assembly area. This time hopefully this should stop all movement.
wish me luck, I will shoot the gun this weekend only
A very big thank you to all of you.
stef.
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 13 2017 :  17:43:22  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi. this is an update on my troubled gun ...

the gun is still playing games on me....

first string of 4 was pretty good, but one flyer (only 4 in the string, as one was shot at 50y for sighting)

second sting was all over the place

3rd sting was best ever (totally amazing) but 1 flyer...

-sorry I didn't note the position of the flyer in the string
-poi has changed between 2nd and 3rd, as I moved the turret down a bit
- the gun overheats fast. I will have to pay more attention to this in the future. maybe it was a factor in the poor grouping of 2nd sting. I didn't wait more than 4 minutes imo.

you are very welcome to comment.
stef







Edited by - herbeapuce on May 13 2017 17:46:11
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Ireload2
Senior Member

USA
260 Posts

Posted - May 13 2017 :  20:53:49  Show Profile Send Ireload2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is easy enough to try another scope.
Both BSA and Simmons have a bad reputation for mechanical failures.

Make sure you are NOT leaning on the butt stock with your face.
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Onondaga
Advanced Member



USA
3950 Posts

Posted - May 13 2017 :  23:20:20  Show Profile Send Onondaga a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steph,

I am calling a hand flinch pattern in your bench form. I have had it, it comes and goes.

Gary

Fine rifles are never really owned.
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MIKESBARRO
Advanced Member



USA
3158 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  09:35:09  Show Profile Send MIKESBARRO a Private Message  Reply with Quote
herb,

This is really out of left field, but if all else fails is something to think about.

Do you have an astigmatism...or are you diabetic??? Not trying to get personal but,I had my eyes examined a couple of months ago for the 1st time in over 20 years. I'm also type II diabetic. I knew diabetes could affect vision long term, but had no idea how much it can in the short term. To make a long story short, I had to get reexamined after the first one because I had not eaten and my blood sugar was out of whack. Vision without eating was 20/50 and with having eaten was 20/30 and the astigmatism was 50% less!!!

I went to the range Friday to do some experimenting shooting a .22 with open sights. Very eye-opening (ya...pun intended) results. Being able to see the sights in "high def" now with the glasses on shrunk group size by 50%. That I pretty much expected; but here's the kicker: the POI with the glasses on was 4" to the right of the POI with no glasses at 50 yards!!!

I have a very good friend who is an outstanding shot whose astigmatism has gotten so bad that he now has to wear glasses WITH A SCOPE!!! He can't hold a group without them.

Mike

Awards are like hemmoroids......if you live long enough, every asshole gets one.
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2762 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  12:54:51  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good post Mike.

Those thoughts completely escaped me as I am Type II as well.

I can fully relate to what you discuss. I only have a very minimal astigmatism, but I have had annual eye exams for prolly the last 18 years.

My left eye is affected and it is dominant. With glasses, I cannot focus the sights and I do shoot a lot of open sights.

I have a pair that I rigged with the lens in the left side and removed the lens on the right side. I can see sights and targets this way.
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  13:54:35  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi.
well I'm 54 now and I have to wear glasses. I could very much shoot the rifle without my glasses, by adjusting the eye piece , but most of the time I shoot with the glasses on for convenience. I'm not diabetic. I don't suffer from anything major beside the usual passed warranty stuff.

as far as flinching, I don't know..... maybe but I certainly don't feel it, and the gun is a pleasure to shoot. the gun is 12.5 pounds heavy. I don't compete and I don't feel any pressure to perform....

I will play with the tension on the rear screw and see if this helps. the way this action is designed, it puts a bit of stress on the trigger guard if I screw the screw all the way in.... I will experiment with this now..











Edited by - herbeapuce on May 14 2017 15:03:26
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luvrifles
Advanced Member



USA
931 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  15:56:28  Show Profile Send luvrifles a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does the stock have a pillar at the rear? Being a mauser it should.

So many different rifles,so little time
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 14 2017 :  17:29:45  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by luvrifles

Does the stock have a pillar at the rear? Being a mauser it should.



no it doesn't yet. but it will have one soon...
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luvrifles
Advanced Member



USA
931 Posts

Posted - May 15 2017 :  07:58:50  Show Profile Send luvrifles a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by herbeapuce

quote:
Originally posted by luvrifles

Does the stock have a pillar at the rear? Being a mauser it should.



no it doesn't yet. but it will have one soon...


That may settle your fliers.

So many different rifles,so little time
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herbeapuce
Average Member

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - May 15 2017 :  17:16:25  Show Profile Send herbeapuce a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote: "That may settle your fliers"

there is a few things I found out about this gun from a fellow Swedish Mauser collector...On my rifle, the magazine box is touching the receiver on all its surface, and apparently the way the Mauser should be assembled is only the front screw is touching the action and after that nothing from the back should be touching the action, but a sleeve (pillar) over the rear screw. there should be a gap in between the magazine box and the receiver...
Now I don't know if I should leave the magazine box touching the action ( I would think no) or should I get a right length sleeve , and bed the action with a gap...
my rear screw might now to to short; probably have to find a good one.
as you can see I have to work on the gun a bit ....
Happy shooting
stef
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