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 Big game loads
 585 HE -- Cases In Production --
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Jun 14 2015 :  04:40:08  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One of first modern era 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first mentioned in the fifties, It was made from BMG brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585" actually if cut off first, it would be annealed, necked
to hold 585 bullet. Fairly sharp shoulder.

They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe fit 98 Mauser bolt.
Maybe used a special hogged out, reworked action. Listed as
shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG or PH sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe back then
they could have used the 3" spotter case, by shortening the neck,
if they could have found couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings, and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our 585 case, simple and straight, any regular, long bolt action,
falling block, break action, etc, a 585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings,
and moderate loads, last forever..

For our 585HE , made it a size, actually new belted size, to fit regular size, long bolt guns,
(not BMG actions)that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite,
of many, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough.
And to get the same and much more powder space as a cut back,
real short, fat, BMG case wildcatted to 585, we made longer case and worked with guys
with a group buy, to get a factory run made. A miracle. We thank all gun nuts for the help.

Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2015 :  02:10:58  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE necked down, the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.

First notice of the case sent to me today off of a guys facebook.





Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up space in a levergun action, say like our rimmed 24ga FH, a 585 bore,

but which is perfect with that rim for break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed


Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Oct 17 2015 :  01:37:08  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of 375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.



Here is a picture of our poster Biebs on AR, 585 HE, in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a fancy jeweled bolt.



We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases, like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is Stiller Cheytac actions
made similiar, justa newer version. Both actions come in 1.45" diameter
and a 1.60" diameter recievers.

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has our 585 HE reamer on hand, we have
barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Nov 10 2015 :  01:29:06  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First laminated thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny type.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs. Easier just use one being added on for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Dec 08 2015 :  23:46:04  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is picture of another neat sporterizing deal for Enfields.
On those without rear bridge pocket welded up, we just mill down
and shape it so debth of the pocket matches bottom section of
weaver rail and screw or epoxy it in. Shape to drive in hole tight.
Can use as a rear scope ring mount or mount for peep sight
like a compact UTG sight...



If we have a welded up Enfield rear bridge, then we can use sight
like on this gun a guy is doing. Has a rosewood laminate stock.
He will have it checkered, sanded, with fancy finish.



Here is a fancy stocked 24ga FH built on a NEF, built by
a guy in Canada. Its straight back, high comb
stock, handles recoil great... Ed




More about 585 BB short case for lever guns, pistols,AR Uppers,
Work in 71s, later 1886s, Henry steel frames made for 45-70.
One guy is putting one in single shot action set up with
Contender style pistol grip for testing in long rifle barrel,
to simulate pistol recoil..Be very brisk recoil in a case
that holds 110 gr powder under a light Minie bullet
Maybe work in a Rossi Judge with heavy barrel.
Or rolling block rifles and pistols....Ed

Ed Hubel
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chig78
Average Member



USA
164 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2015 :  00:38:07  Show Profile Send chig78 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bot I'll tell ya, looks like you have an awesome job. I would love to know the extent of engineering that goes into producing something like that 375 Warlord. Or any of them for that matter. That's awesome.

Chig78
I your gonna be dumb, Ya better be tough
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Dec 25 2015 :  21:53:37  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the guy had to use a bunch of progressively smaller
dies to get the mouth of case smaller and shoulder formed
and some annealing also.

Here is a picture from the back, of a big Lawton action that
our 585HE fits in nice. Scope rail on there is tapered
for long range shooting.



Here is what our wildcatter buddy is making from our
585HE brass to see how they look and experiment with.
He is getting reamers, dies, and gun setup first for the 375.





In some ways big bore shotguns and rifles are sexy.
By looking at the shape of the fire and smoke cloud....
Thanks for picture, to the great NitroExpress Forums site. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Jan 25 2016 :  02:36:54  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A poster reading our threads said '' I'm slowly becoming a recoilapheliac''..
That is neat term , and very glad that folks are catching the big bore fever.

Here is a simple, yet neat peep sight we can use on the rear sporterized
bridges of Enfields, works on other rear bridges also.Including shotguns.
I like peep sights the best for most shooting. They also come with flat
bottoms also for bridges and receivers that are flat on top.



Another picture of the 585 HE one of our guys put in the MPI stock..



Here is another pic of our guys 24ga FH in the NEF




On straight sided cases like our 585 HE the die set has a mouth expander
die to make it easy to insert bullets. The die flares the mouth, but I always
felt that doing what is really a relative relatively sharp flare, and then the slight
roll crimping the same area of the case into a groove on the
bullet or slug, shortens case life.

So I just use expander plug out of the die, by hand, using just the bottom of
of the expander plug and just push it in a little, wobble it around a small
amount, bullet goes in ok, case mouths last longer, good for dozens of loads,
with moderate hunting and target loads.Only takes a few seconds and less
work that has to be done in the press ... Ed




Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Feb 12 2016 :  06:08:56  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote



Here is video by Corlanes Sporting, Dawson Creek, BC, CAN.
Known as, Rocky Mtn Rifles, video on Youtube of them testing our
585 HE in a barreled action, they are building for a guy. They are
shooting it into their big bullet trap with test load..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vzQjRGfT1A

Allan and Grant Swan in Australia are building 585HE for a guy,
the second they built. First one killed the buff pictured earlier .
AHR and Vestals will make folks here in US a 585 HE.
Here is another view of a Lawton action big enough for 585HE..




Here is picture of Rossi SS with 585 barrel mono-blocked into it,
chambered for our 585 BB 2.17" case, to do testing in a light rifle
with just pistol grip to simulate the case in pistols. Others going to
put case in leverguns, autoloaders. We got plenty of cases Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Mar 17 2016 :  14:23:34  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote


The style of most break actions singles aren't the greatest, that we
we used for 12ga FH, 10ga FH, other caliber barrels we mono-blocked
in them like .585" bore for 585HE and 24ga FH.. One that is close
that we have, is the Magtech.

Well the guys have found one that is super strong lockup and looks
real nice. And has the good quality look. It comes 12ga light shot barrel,
soon be monoblocked to rifled 24ga FH, the little brother of the 585HE.

We told company if they did them with NEF style, rifled, heavy slug barrel,
for shotgun caliber only hunters, they couldn't make them fast enough.




Here is picture of 585HE, In an Enfield that Bret and Darrel in Minn
set up with great camo finish, with nice brake job. It is in a Hogue, recoil
reducing, rubber coated, Compstock.Great job they did.. Ed



Here is picture from the rear of the Enfield we mounted the short Weaver
rail piece on. It is mounted in the sight pocket that the actions have;
Can hold scope ring or a rear peep sight like UTG makes.. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Apr 14 2016 :  02:05:21  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We will have arrived when we have this big bore in our back yard,
Kind of a neat suppressor,




Here is folder shotgun, the guys set up as 24ga FH.
Shoots nice, looks nice, it a more expensive break action,
compared to many others.




Here is another view of what we feel is a nearly perfect
break action. Guy is making a strong 24ga FH with it.




Here is picture of a 585HE MRC PH a guy set up..




Here is picture of our shorter 585 BB for leverguns, etc, with
variety of bullets..Can get energy like regular elephant guns..Ed





Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - May 11 2016 :  21:22:44  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.



Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old days
for shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases



Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..
It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt
further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.
Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.
Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.



Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.
Nice looking wood. Ed



Ed Hubel
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2016 :  06:18:18  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Here is picture of our 585BB case next to long 585HE.




Here is another view of the great camo job on the
585HE Enfield, a top view. Ed



Ed Hubel
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WonderMan4
Advanced Member

USA
2846 Posts

Posted - Jun 18 2016 :  12:51:55  Show Profile Send WonderMan4 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed: Is there a reason that y'all elected to have a belted case???
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hubel458
Senior Member

USA
464 Posts

Posted - Jun 19 2016 :  02:29:05  Show Profile  Visit hubel458's Homepage Send hubel458 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is straight sided case and belt is needed for headspacing.

If we made little bit bigger base case and necked it down to have a

shoulder, then case to big to go into some different falling blocks

without taking metal from feed ramps, which support breach.

And the case takes high pressures ok.Ed

Ed Hubel
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