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02cummins
Starting Member



USA
3 Posts

Posted - Jul 17 2012 :  20:26:47  Show Profile Send 02cummins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have never reloaded in my life and I bought a tc custom shop barrel for my encore on eBay thinking it was a-square now I figure out its Ackley Improved I know some friends that reload but how hard is resizing for the 40 degree shoulder?

450Dakota
Junior Member

73 Posts

Posted - Jul 17 2012 :  20:36:50  Show Profile Send 450Dakota a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It really isn't any different from a standard case. You will hve to get 338-06 Improved dies. I have a 375 H&H Ackley Improved. Once you fire form the case it is pretty much the same.
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eric2381
Advanced Member



Canada
2009 Posts

Posted - Jul 17 2012 :  23:14:30  Show Profile Send eric2381 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
X2. Fireform your brass in the rifle, then reload them as normal. As said, you will need a set of dies.

How much experience do your friends have in reloading?

In the end, you may be real glad that you got the AI version.

I can help you with forming brass and maybe with a possible load to try. First I need to know how much you and the person that is going to be helping you know.

I've never saw a hearse with a luggage rack....
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02cummins
Starting Member



USA
3 Posts

Posted - Jul 18 2012 :  19:10:52  Show Profile Send 02cummins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My friends know a lot about reloading but all I know is just a little bit by watching them.
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Rapier
Advanced Member



USA
546 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2012 :  09:34:57  Show Profile Send Rapier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
02,
The break action guns by Thompson Center were originally designed for rimmed cartridges. The 06 based cat you have, is a rimless cartridge, so some care and special treatment is required in the fire forming process as it will headspace off the shoulder.

There are basically three ways to create the shoulder, all involve fire forming of one type or another.

1) You can run a case through the dies and seat a bullet out until it engages the rifling when the action is closed, thus holding the case in place against the recoil shield of the encore. To do this it is best to use a light weight bullet and a starting to medium weight charge of powder. Do not use a heavy charge with the bullet jammed into the rifling.

2) You can with some cartridges form a false shoulder by reducing the neck's diameter. In your situation you would start with a 35 Whalen (a 35x06) and neck it down to 338 using your dies, you set the sizing die to leave a bulge in the neck, just before the shoulder, that bulge allows a crush fit when the action is closed. You will need to play with the adjustment to get the fit just right. Load up a moderate load with a bullet and fire form the case.

3) You run the case through the die, insert a primer, then about 5gr of Bullseye powder, then a toilet paper wad, no bullet, shoot the load into a cardboard box in the garage with doors closed and the case should blow out at least good enough to get you on your way.

I normally use the last two methods for forming my brass, depending on the case involved, with the toilet paper wad being the most used. A quarter of a sheet usually is good enough but on a larger case it might take a little more TP.

A word about accuracy and a break action. Your best accuracy comes fron neck sizing the brass and the rule of thumb is you need no more than 50% of the bullet diameter in the resized neck length, I usually size about 50% of the neck length, regardless. Now you may want to index your brass. To index it you simply pick an indicator on the base and line it up the same way every time. Say you use a 35 Whelen case, you line up the front of the 3 with the left side of the extractor. I never worried with it, but some swear by the practice.

Good luck. You picked a real project for the first time out of the box. I have the all of the P. O. Ackley books so if you need a load from the master himself, let me know. But you can find stuff on the 338x06 here in the rifle section.
Ed

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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eric2381
Advanced Member



Canada
2009 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2012 :  10:20:19  Show Profile Send eric2381 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would use Rapiers number 2 method. Neck down 35 whelen just enough so that it's a crush fit in the chamber.

I've been shooting the 215gr Sierra gameking in my 338 Gibbs, which is sort of an improved 338-06 AI. It's shooting very well for me, much better than the 200gr accubond. But that's most likely due to me being able to seat closer to the lands with the Sierra and still be mag length. Which you won't have to worry about with the single shot.

I've never saw a hearse with a luggage rack....
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02cummins
Starting Member



USA
3 Posts

Posted - Jul 19 2012 :  20:53:03  Show Profile Send 02cummins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
so with the break action I cannot fireform factory 338-06 a square cases into AI shoulder
?
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Rapier
Advanced Member



USA
546 Posts

Posted - Jul 20 2012 :  11:59:11  Show Profile Send Rapier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
02,
If I had some 338x06 A Square brass already, I would first try a piece of the A Square brass in the chamber to see if the action will close and lock up, without forcing the action. You may need to use a cleaning rod to pop the brass out if it sticks. If the A Square brass fits and it is fired, it should just drop out and be fire formed, ready to reload. However, based on your post, it sounds like the A Square brass will not fit the chamber.

If the A Square brass you already have, if you have it, does not chamber, run it through (fill length sizing) the 338x06 AI sizing die you have or will have, to bring the A Square brass to a standard AI chamber length cartridge case and you should be OK to start the fire forming process at that point. The base is going to remain the same, you will just be changing the shoulder and/or the body near the shoulder.

Now if you do not have the A Square brass already, I doubt that you can buy it cheaper than say a bag of Rem 35 Whelen Brass. The AI chambers are made in such a way that a standard cartridge can be fired in an AI chamber and it will fire form. As an example, a 06 AI can have a standard 06 case fired in it and it will chamber and fire form into an AI, it is one of the advantages of the AI system as designed.

However with the change to a larger caliber from the original, the original 06 brass may not work that way, at least all the time. The A Square line of brass usually has the shoulder moved forward slightly it is part of the A Square branding. The A Square shoulder angle is usually 19 degrees and not 40 as with most of the AI brass. But move the shoulder back, by full length sizing with the AI die and it will fire form in the AI chamber.
Ed

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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eric2381
Advanced Member



Canada
2009 Posts

Posted - Jul 20 2012 :  18:05:36  Show Profile Send eric2381 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it's a true Ackley chamber than you should be able to fireform factory 338-06 a square in it. I'm sure that ammo is expensive to just make brass out of though. A bag of 35 whelen brass could be easily made into what you need with no special dies other than the 338-06 AI dies you'll need to load for the rifle.

I've never saw a hearse with a luggage rack....
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Rapier
Advanced Member



USA
546 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2012 :  07:24:35  Show Profile Send Rapier a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eric,
That is the story in a nutshell, A Square brass has Weatherby stamped on it mostly. Weatherby does not make anything, brass or loaded rounds that are not expensive. Before the post, I looked up two sites with A Square brass for sale, $2.00 - $6.00 per each new brass, unprimed and not loaded. The 35 Whelen Remington brass at Midsouth is $58 for 100 and in stock. Unless already purchased, the A Square brass would be a very expensive and unnecessary way to make the AI brass.
Ed

Life is simpler when you plow around the stump.

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
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eric2381
Advanced Member



Canada
2009 Posts

Posted - Jul 21 2012 :  09:35:20  Show Profile Send eric2381 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I use 35 whelen brass to make my 338 and 30 Gibbs brass.

If you form your brass with fast powder and cream of wheat with no bullet, I've found it works better to fire these straight up in the air. The case mouths end up being squarer. Not something to do in your garage, that stuff comes out fast and hard. I do it out in the country away from anybody else.

I've never saw a hearse with a luggage rack....
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TxTickPkr
Advanced Member

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - Aug 11 2012 :  02:07:35  Show Profile  Send TxTickPkr an AOL message  Send TxTickPkr a Yahoo! Message Send TxTickPkr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
35 Whelen would be my choice as a parent cartridge. Put it into the 338-06 AI die with the expander ball. Use a good lube. I have no experience forming in a break open action but have used the cream of wheat method forming ackley brass in bolt actions and spent hours picking cream of wheat concrete out of necks and sholders. I was also left with partialy formed sholders. I get much better results fireing the bullets I intend to shoot and a load closer to potential for the parent cartridge. In this case that would be a starting load for 338-06 AI. Use a seating depth that contacts the lands to keep the cartrige sholders in position for the forming. Useing this seating depth, be shure to trim the cases AFTER sizeing. I find that if trimed .010 under spec. the cartriges seldom streach far enough to require follow up triming. That's one of the perks of AI cartridges. If available, and there are cheaper or entry level models, chronograph as you form your first few loads. Compare these results with your manuals and expectations of fully formed loads. If accuracy is acceptable you may be satisfied useing these forming loads as you intend to use subsequent loadinds at least untill a workable number of formed brass is completed. I hope handloading is as rewarding for you as it has been for me over tha last 38 years. Have fun.
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BISCUT
Moderator



3481 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2012 :  13:45:40  Show Profile Send BISCUT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by eric2381

I use 35 whelen brass to make my 338 and 30 Gibbs brass.

If you form your brass with fast powder and cream of wheat with no bullet, I've found it works better to fire these straight up in the air. The case mouths end up being squarer. Not something to do in your garage, that stuff comes out fast and hard. I do it out in the country away from anybody else.



I wasn't thrilled with 35 Whelen brass from REM for my 35 AI so I moved to Lapua 06 brass and a tapered button. 35 to 338 is a pretty small move so shouldnt be any issues for ya. I believe I saw Nosler making 35 W brass now....

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TxTickPkr
Advanced Member

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2012 :  15:14:07  Show Profile  Send TxTickPkr an AOL message  Send TxTickPkr a Yahoo! Message Send TxTickPkr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Biscuit makes a good point about REM brass. There could be an economic advantage selecting a premium brass. There will definately be an advantage in brass preperation work and time. There are optional ways to form brass but with Nosler making 35 W That makes your project much easier. BTW all my searches for NEW 280 AI brass have come up dry except for one that hopes to fill my order in the middle of January 2013. Anyone out there with about 50 new headstamped and unfired they care to sell?
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TxTickPkr
Advanced Member

USA
1209 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2012 :  15:25:52  Show Profile  Send TxTickPkr an AOL message  Send TxTickPkr a Yahoo! Message Send TxTickPkr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OH a correction is in order. It's been 48 years of fun loading not 38. I guess this means I need to start Checking all my weights and measures 4 times rather than 3.
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eric2381
Advanced Member



Canada
2009 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2012 :  17:13:07  Show Profile Send eric2381 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll have to see if I can find some Nosler 35 whelen brass to form into both of my Gibbs chambers.

Has nosler solved the problem I read so much about that their brass was soft and heavy and pretty much Federal brass?

I've got 50 Nosler 7mm rem mag brass that had been very good to me.

I've never saw a hearse with a luggage rack....
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