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bwalters99
Senior Member



USA
420 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  09:11:31  Show Profile Send bwalters99 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a .243 w/ more brass than I'll probably need for a .308..

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the process for sizing down .308 brass to get it to work for a .243...?

Hello..... I see the assassins have failed..

ten2six
Advanced Member



USA
3494 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  13:00:17  Show Profile Send ten2six a Private Message  Reply with Quote
bwalters99,

Necking down from a .308 to a .243 is not rocket science, but does pose some issues....

If you do it, I'd recommend starting with a 7mm/08 FL die, then use a .243 FL die, as smaller steps seems to work better than one size drop. Use a good case lube, like Imperial, and be a bit more liberal than normal. I use a dry lube on the necks with Imperial around the base of the case. Issues you may experience will include thick necks, since the extra brass has to go somewhere. Turning necks is usually recommended to uniform and improve accuracy.

Trimming cases, if necessary, and chamferring/de-burring are typically required. Annealing case necks afterwards will reduce the case hardening from necking down. Finally, figure a way to mark the case head so you can recognize the re-sized .308 cases for what they are.

ten

"Chances are, when we meet intelligent life forms in outer space, they're going to be descended from predators."
- Michio Kaku

Edited by - ten2six on Jul 16 2012 13:01:54
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n/a
deleted

339 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  17:45:21  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Redding form and trim die will take the brass down to .243 in one pass. About $28 from Midway.
7x57guy
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bwalters99
Senior Member



USA
420 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  18:27:55  Show Profile Send bwalters99 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
7x57...

I took a quick look on the Midway site, but was unable to find the particular die you were speaking of... Do you by chance have a link that points to it...?

Hello..... I see the assassins have failed..
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  20:43:47  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/381839/rcbs-case-forming-die-243-rock-chucker
F. Guffey
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Jul 16 2012 :  20:45:53  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/506276/redding-trim-die-243-winchester

F. Guffey
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ranger335v
Advanced Member

1631 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2012 :  20:38:44  Show Profile Send ranger335v a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Necking .308 to .243 is easy enough for even me to do it. It can be done with some success in one step but,as 10-2-6 says, it is better to do it in smaller stages to reduce (eliminate) case loss; I recommend using both 7-08 and .260 Rem FL sizers and remove the decap stem for this work. If you don't have one or both of them you might be able to borrow them for long enough to do the task? If not, just buy a set of each in Lee's RGB series; together they won't cost a lot and the new dies will be a nice addition to your bench. You sure wouldn't need a costly forming die. Nor a 'file trim' die if you have a normal case trimmer for .243.

Finished case length isn't likely to be a problem and the "new" .243 necks will be about 27% thicker than the .308s. Most factory necks run about .013" thick and your new necks will be about .017", making the loaded cartridges end up about .277" in diameter. Anyway, make up a dummy round and check to see if your present FIRED .243 case necks are at least three thou larger than your new LOADED neck diameter; if it isn't you will need to turn them down until you have at least that much difference for safe chamber clearance.

Case reforming is interesting stuff and can be fun but to make them last very long the finished case necks should be annealed or you'll have early neck failures. Annealing correctly is the trickest part of the job.

Google "case neck annealing' for several articles explaining how to do it. The most difficult thing is to get them hot enough but not too hot. Too hot will make them dead soft because it burns the zinc out of the alloy, leaving virtually no bullet grip.

- Common sense is an uncommon quality -

Edited by - ranger335v on Jul 22 2012 20:50:17
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bwalters99
Senior Member



USA
420 Posts

Posted - Jul 22 2012 :  20:51:46  Show Profile Send bwalters99 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ranger...

Thanks for the info... Much appreciate it...

Sounds like I have more homework to do :)

Hello..... I see the assassins have failed..
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Bobo7mmmag
Advanced Member

2491 Posts

Posted - Jul 28 2012 :  12:40:12  Show Profile Send Bobo7mmmag a Private Message  Reply with Quote
+1 to Ranger
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n/a
deleted

339 Posts

Posted - Jul 28 2012 :  23:20:27  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks F. Guffey for the link. The Redding die will get the job done. From .30-06 brass, I get 7x57, .25-06, and 8x57 brass by using the appropriate Redding form and trim die. I use the following process: 1) anneal the 30-06 brass first (in your case, it would be .308 brass). 2) run the 30-06 brass through the form and trim die (one pass will bring it close to the proper size). 3) w/ a hack saw and file, trim any brass sticking out the top of the die. (this process only takes a few seconds and is not a big deal). 4)chamfer the mouth. 5) run through a full length sizing die of the cartridge you are forming. 6)trim and chamfer if necessary. And, you are done and have a newly formed, perfect case w/ little effort. It all sounds like a lot of work when you break it down, but really it is not.
This method is easier (on the reloader and the brass) than running it through several full length resizing dies that may or may not work as you would like it to, and you will only have to buy one die instead of two or more, so you save money too.
But, it is your brass, form it any way you want to. I am just speaking from many years of reloading and case forming.
7x57guy
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Jul 29 2012 :  13:00:20  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote


"I have a .243 w/ more brass than I'll probably need for a .308..

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the process for sizing down .308 brass to get it to work for a .243...?"

308 W to 243, nothing happens to the shoulder of the 308 W, part of the neck becomes part of the shoulder meaning the shoulder gets longer, the rest of the 308 W case become part of 243 neck.

Repeated over and over so many times, there are those that believe the neck gets thicker and or thinner when necking up and of down.

I neck up 30/06 to 338/06 and 35 Whelen, the case shortens as much as .035 thousandths from the head of the case to the mouth of the case, my necks shorten when necking up, my case necks get longer when necking down, I measure before and again after.

With all your years of case forming cases I am sure you aware new cases should be used, second choice, once fired. When annealing the cases the should be annealed to the juncture of the new shoulder. again, I make annealing equipment, annealing is not something that can be discussed on the Internet. Annealing, there is more to annealing than waving the case over the fire.

Again, with all of your years of experience you know the 30/06 is not the perfect case for forming 35 Whelen and 338/06, back to the part where necking up 30/06 to 35 Whelen and 338/06, when necking up 30/06 cases to 35 Whelen the case shortens .35 thousandths.

F. Guffey

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ranger335v
Advanced Member

1631 Posts

Posted - Jul 30 2012 :  12:09:38  Show Profile Send ranger335v a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Guffy: "..the case shortens .35 thousandths."

Does a case length change of a third of a thou matter?

- Common sense is an uncommon quality -

Edited by - ranger335v on Jul 30 2012 12:21:23
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Paul B
Advanced Member

3209 Posts

Posted - Aug 01 2012 :  17:13:44  Show Profile Send Paul B a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While one can make .243 brass from .308s, one should make a few checks first. First, measure the necks on a few once fired .243 cases that have not been resized. Then convert a few .308 cases to .243 and seat whatever bullets you plan on using. Then, measure the necks of the converted cases and compare them with the necks of the once fired ,243 brass. The converted cases should be smaller than the fire .243 brass. If the same or larger, those case necks may not open up enough to properly release the bullet thus creating higher to possibly dangerous pressures. Not good.
Paul B.
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F. Guffey
Advanced Member

USA
690 Posts

Posted - Aug 02 2012 :  14:02:51  Show Profile  Visit F. Guffey's Homepage Send F. Guffey a Private Message  Reply with Quote
“I neck up 30/06 to 338/06 and 35 Whelen, the case shortens as much as .035 thousandths from the head of the case to the mouth of the case, my necks shorten when necking up, my case necks get longer when necking down, I measure before and again after”




”Again, with all of your years of experience you know the 30/06 is not the perfect case for forming 35 Whelen and 338/06, back to the part where necking up 30/06 to 35 Whelen and 338/06, when necking up 30/06 cases to 35 Whelen the case shortens .35 thousandths”


“Does a case length change of a third of a thou matter?”

A third of .001” (thousandths or 1/1000”) is .00033” etc., so I will assume you failed to read the first paragraph or chose to choose to ignore it, that is OK, the second paragraph contains an error, I omitted a zero, I should have typed .035” thousandths as in 35/1000”.

Matter? and keeping up with more than one thought at a time, my 30 Gibbs chamber was reamed from a 30/06 Belgian Barrel, the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the beginning of the throat did not change, 2,494 plus head space????? as in the difference in length between the length of the chamber and length of the case from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber and the length of the case from the head of the case to its shoulder. (Keeping up with more than thought at a time), the length of the chamber did not change, the length of the case did, now the difficult part to keep up with, the case neck shortened.

The length of the neck for the 30 Gibbs is .217” or .217 thousandths or 217/1000, matters not to most that do not have control over the length of the neck, those that do not have control believe the neck length of the 300 Win Mag is too short (.265”. thousandths or 264/1000 or just over 1/4 of an inch) they also use tons of gigs (space) on the merits of neck tension, neck thickness and how all this applies to accuracy, back to “matters?”. I can increase bullet hold for my 30 Gibbs by increasing the length of the neck .034 “, thousandths, 34/1000” again, the length of my chamber did not change. (My 30 Gibbs neck, after forming, is .251”, still shorter than the neck of the 300 Win Mag, again, there are those that believe the 300 Win Wag neck is too short, .251 is shorter than the 300 Win mag neck but longer than the 30 Gibbs neck when instructions are followed.

Back to forming and fire forming, I do not insist on using the 30/06 case, the 270 case length is 2.540”, necking the 270 up to 35 Whelen or 338/06 will not shorten the case length .080”, thousandths, 80/1000” or 8/100” or 4/50” or 2/25”, same for my favorite case, the 280 Remington with the long case body, .051” thousandths longer than the 30/06, it makes no sense to a reloader but eliminating the difference in length between the chamber and case is ’can not miss’. I form first then fire, reloaders fire to form, again, when I eject a formed case it is, after firing, a once fired case. After ejecting the once fired case I can verify my measurements of the chamber as in the length of the chamber from the bolt face to he shoulder (no datum, my chambers do not come with a datum, they do come with a shoulder).

Going beyond keeping up with one thought at a time, I do not have a chamber that comes complete with a datum, I do not have a case that includes a datum, I do not have a die that has a datum, meaning I have to furnish datums because datums are not a part of my chamber, die and or cases, impossible concept for smiths and reloaders, datum is not a line, datum is “measured from’ all of my datums are round/circle holes.

Matter? I want my cases to cover my chambers, I want my cases to fit my chambers from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber. Factors that do not lock me up, the difference in outside case diminutions and chamber inside dimensions, the difference is ‘time is a factor’ neck sizing only reduces ‘time as a factor’, again I am the fan of ‘time is a factor, I want nothing between my case and chamber but air, clean sir, air is a fluid, air flows, before pressure inside the case can get serious the air must flow, that takes time, time is a factor.

F. Guffey
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