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newguy220
Senior Member



USA
424 Posts

Posted - Jun 01 2012 :  23:28:11  Show Profile Send newguy220 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
After Big Harry's post the other day, I got to thinking after someone brought up the point of using hollow points vs. FMJ. If you were using a .22LR pistol for self defensive, what would be the better choice, HP or FMJ? I understand that there are better calibers for self defensive, but I'm just curious about everyone's opinions.

Thanks,
newguy220

crash
Senior Member

205 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  06:29:34  Show Profile Send crash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would vot hollow point- works much better on stray dogs .
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nachogrande
Senior Member

491 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  08:22:20  Show Profile  Send nachogrande an AOL message Send nachogrande a Private Message  Reply with Quote
depends where your shot hits, hard thick bone or soft tissue. I'd alternate them. and get a fast to deploy neck knife or whichever type you prefer.
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Hockeynick39
Advanced Member



USA
3698 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  09:38:49  Show Profile  Send Hockeynick39 an AOL message Send Hockeynick39 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nachogrande

depends where your shot hits, hard thick bone or soft tissue. I'd alternate them. and get a fast to deploy neck knife or whichever type you prefer.



Not to open another deeper wound, but isn't that inviting even worse legal ramifications. Like, "Sir, after you shot the man several times with HPs and FMJs, why did you slice open his neck with a 'neck' knife?" Just invites too much criticism. I do carry the Old Timer 2" wittling blade in my pocket too and yes I would use it if the perp was still coming at me after being shot, don't get me wrong. My vote would go for the HPs for .22 use, especially if you are a small game hunter or close proximity indoor shooter. I carry a Hi Standard Military HD in .22 with me in the woods during bow season for squirrels or rabbits on the way out for dinner and it is loaded with HPs. I just really don't have a use for FMJs because, although I do target practice and shoot a lot, I like practicing with what I am going to actually use so that I am used to them and their impact points.
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Goatwhiskers
New Member

22 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  09:55:34  Show Profile Send Goatwhiskers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FWIW, there are no .22LR that are FMJ, or any jacket at all. They are lead with a copper wash plating. You have to get into the center fire type bullets to get a copper jacket. Goat

The possibilities for disaster boggle the mind.
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crash
Senior Member

205 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  10:19:12  Show Profile Send crash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I figured we were talking hollow point or solid point.
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crash
Senior Member

205 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  10:21:04  Show Profile Send crash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a friend who is a retired big-city policeman - he said lots of people are killed with 22's - usually tumble internally.
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Goatwhiskers
New Member

22 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  12:02:56  Show Profile Send Goatwhiskers a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reading on another forum, a gentleman said his friend, who is an ER nurse observed that the 9mm victims come to the ER, those shot with a .45 go to the morgue. Goat

The possibilities for disaster boggle the mind.
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crash
Senior Member

205 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  12:24:35  Show Profile Send crash a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When it gets to the point I need the neck knife, I will try to outrun them.
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ten2six
Advanced Member



USA
3567 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  13:11:16  Show Profile Send ten2six a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a self defence situation I wouldn't be caught dead using a .22 ...because that's what I'd likely end up.

Stopping power is what you want in a fast evolving (for example, several armed burglars break into your house while you're there) self defence situation. Stopping power, stopping power, stopping power.

While a .22 can kill it usually takes luck, time, and multiple shots. Not easy in a self defence situation, especially at distance.

Finally, +1 to Goat on most .22 bullets being equal. Copper wash doesn't mean jacketed, so HP may add to early expansion but most .22 bullets are relatively equal....MV would be more important.

ten

"Chances are, when we meet intelligent life forms in outer space, they're going to be descended from predators."
- Michio Kaku

Edited by - ten2six on Jun 02 2012 13:12:40
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BISCUT
Moderator



3497 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  17:17:21  Show Profile Send BISCUT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Goatwhiskers

Reading on another forum, a gentleman said his friend, who is an ER nurse observed that the 9mm victims come to the ER, those shot with a .45 go to the morgue. Goat



Pure nonsense. The kill numbers are statistically insignifigant when comparing nationwide hospital data from 2000-2010 with 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP.

Plenty of variables account for a kill as opposed to a wound. But the 3 major SD rounds are so close that nobody can say with true authority that any of them is better than the other.

Lucky for me, I have all 3 and love em all! It's so much more to do with proper bullet choice and bullet placement by the shooter.
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MIKESBARRO
Advanced Member



USA
2848 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  18:30:52  Show Profile Send MIKESBARRO a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is some data I got from handloads.com. I couldn't get the charts to copy/paste legibly so you have to click on each link individually to view; pretty interesting comparisons between .22lr, 9mm, .357 mag, and .45 acp, and .44 mag. To sum it up, the .357 and .45 had toe highest % of 0ne-shot stops...even higher than the .44 mag. I suspect that a lot of this is due to recoil sensitivity of the .44 though and better shot placement.







http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=5&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=18&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=2&Weight=All

http://handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=13&Weight=All



Mike

Awards are like hemmoroids......if you live long enough, every asshole gets one.

Edited by - MIKESBARRO on Jun 02 2012 18:31:30
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nachogrande
Senior Member

491 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  18:42:16  Show Profile  Send nachogrande an AOL message Send nachogrande a Private Message  Reply with Quote
agree with biscuit, placement is everything regardless of caliber. the quality of good ammo makes 38 special,9mm,40,45 all very effective at close range. if running away is an option, that should always be your #1 choice. if you have a ccw permit and I would encourage everone to do so while able. that would include knives so if you are attacked to the point you need to defend your life you would be ok to use any means at your disposal to protect yourself. and if in a close quarter combat(hands already on)putting a hand into your pocket would reduce your defense by 50% leaving you wide open, think what would happen to a boxer if he dropped a hand to scratch his nads for a sec and instead of boxing gloves the other guy had a weapon.muggers/attackers are not gonna anounce they are about to pounce, and umpteen tests have proven that knives can be brought into action faster than guns.
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JLDickmon
Junior Member



USA
73 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  21:54:12  Show Profile  Send JLDickmon a Yahoo! Message Send JLDickmon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All I'm going to say is.. "No one ever died from a .44 Mag to the knee.."

something existential goes here...
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Shastaboat
Advanced Member

USA
5278 Posts

Posted - Jun 02 2012 :  23:02:24  Show Profile Send Shastaboat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JLDickmon

All I'm going to say is.. "No one ever died from a .44 Mag to the knee.."



Not so sure I'd agree with that. If a 44 mag hit you in the knee and hit an artery you could bleed out in a matter of minutes.
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Galen
Average Member

140 Posts

Posted - Jun 03 2012 :  10:10:26  Show Profile Send Galen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The original question I thought was is it better to use hollow point or solid with a .22 for self defense. I would like to expand on the question hyper velocity (yellow jackets etc.) or 60 grain solids slower but more penetration.
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