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caveman0101 Posted - Jul 26 2017 : 22:12:06
Tried out a Nosler #8 book load 280Rem 150gr bullet 56gr MRP. Book says they used a 26" barrel, mine is a 28". Book says speed should have been 3020, actual was 2810. The other loads I tried were expectedly faster than book, what the hell happened to this one?
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
noylj Posted - Aug 01 2017 : 16:34:47
Don't forget lot of powder.

A whole lot of tomfoolery has been created by printing the velocity. Everyone seems to think that, while different manuals have different max loads (and, therefore different start loads) by testing with different lots of powder, different lots of bullets (and, in most cases, totally different bullets), different cases, different primers, and different COLs using totally different guns, that for some reason the manual THEY have should exactly match what their gun gives them.
Then, there is the still unexplained phenomenon of the "fast" barrel where you take two barrels off the assembly line, measure them and they seem to have "exactly" the same dimensions, yet one shoot 100-200 fps faster than the other.
Think about it.
noylj Posted - Aug 01 2017 : 16:33:42
Don't forget lot of powder.

A whole lot of tomfoolery has been created by printing the velocity. Everyone seems to think that, while different manuals have different max loads (and, therefore different start loads) and very different velocities, caused by testing with different lots of powder, different lots of bullets (and, in most cases, totally different bullets), different cases, different primers, and different COLs using totally different guns, that for some reason the manual THEY have should exactly match what their gun gives them.
Then, there is the still unexplained phenomenon of the "fast" barrel where you take two barrels off the assembly line, measure them and they seem to have "exactly" the same dimensions, yet one shoot 100-200 fps faster than the other.
Think about it.
Shastaboat Posted - Jul 30 2017 : 10:18:07
And It is cheaper some places by about $4.00 a lb.
Zero333 Posted - Jul 29 2017 : 23:34:47
Thanks, I'll give it a try one of these days. I just rarely read or hear much about it, but from your opinion it sounds like a good alternative to H-4350 and worth trying.

Shastaboat Posted - Jul 29 2017 : 09:05:50
Yeah but then you would have to bring a wheelbarrow to carry the thing around.

Really, I've been impressed with the accuracy of H100V. Meters well. beats the speed of 4350 and has been accurate where I've tried it. You might want to try it. Budlight turned me on to it.
Zero333 Posted - Jul 28 2017 : 22:16:31
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

So what velocity are you getting with 4831?



I've never loaded H-4831 where I reached pressure signs but with a 22" bbl I got 2,962 with 105's and 3,060 in a 26" bbl with 107's.

Thus far best one-hole accuracy with H-4831 has been with milder loads... 2,945 is the sweet spot in one of my 26" bbls with 107's.

I actually never reached signs of pressure with any of my 243's regardless of powder being used. If I thought I needed more speed I would neck down a 300winmag to 6mm and fill it full of 50bmg powder



Shastaboat Posted - Jul 28 2017 : 17:40:30
So what velocity are you getting with 4831?
Zero333 Posted - Jul 28 2017 : 17:07:10
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

4831 is too slow for .243 Win size case. 4350 or H100V is about the slowest powder to use in that case and will produce the highest velocities and excellent accuracy with 100+ bullet weights.



Remember I seat the bullets out farther leaving more space in the boiler room. Most of the chambers I'm working with I'm seating 107 SMK and 105 vld's from 2.820" to 2.85".

I prefer working with 95% to 105% load density.
I use RL-25, Retumbo, H-1000 and H-4831 in my 243's. with 105-107's.
H-4831 and RL-25 have never disappointed me with their accuracy.
But H-4831 is my #1 go to 243win powder for 90gr-107gr because it's not as temp sensitive as RL-25. (for 90-100 grainers I use H-4831sc)

I'm not all about velocity either. I like accuracy and to some degree longer barrel life (with out having to wait for my barrels to cool all the time), which I get with H-4831 and H-1000.

I tried H-4350, RL-19 & RL-22 with 105-107 grainers.
H-4350 was good but didn't beat the accuracy of H-4831.
RL-19 could not achieve sub 0.75moa consistently.
RL-22 was good but EXTREMELY temp sensitive. It changed POI from cold barrel to hot barrel.


Shastaboat Posted - Jul 28 2017 : 11:03:30
4831 is too slow for .243 Win size case. 4350 or H100V is about the slowest powder to use in that case and will produce the highest velocities and excellent accuracy with 100+ bullet weights.
RaySendero Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 22:45:55
quote:
Originally posted by Zero333



By definition alone, our handloads are recipes since a "recipe" is "something that is likely to lead to a particular outcome".





I agree.

My post was an inside joke to the boat.
caveman0101 Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 22:10:39
That is what I saw to Zero. With H1000 and RL22 I shot a bit faster than the book loads for them. The odd ball was MRP and it wasn't even close. I'm from the south but live in Colorado so I've got some experience with developing a load at 7500ft 30F 10% humidity, then driving to MS and shooting the same load at 400ft 60F 85% humidity. Frankly, the biggest difference I've seen in velocity has been less than 100fps.Actually, the biggest differences I've found have come here in the mountains finding a load during the summer 85F and then going hunting in late season -15F.
Zero333 Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 20:38:06
By definition alone, our handloads are recipes since a "recipe" is "something that is likely to lead to a particular outcome".

About the topic... Worst one I've had was Hodgdon's 243win data with H-4831 and 105gr Amax.

I used the same brass, same primer, same powder, but my barrel was 2" shorter than their 24" test barrel and their max load in my rifle I wouldn't even use as a starting load.

Hodgdon's max was 41 gr H-4831 making 2,846 fps.
My rifle averaged 2,594 fps with 41 gr.

A few consecutive trips to the range testing this combo, and I still have not found a max charge with H-4831, but I stopped at 45.8 gr (4.8gr above Hodgdon's MAX), getting 2,916 fps avg.

There is a good explanation for some of the difference in velocity and pressure, but still can't explain the majority of the nonconformity.

I was testing in the Winter ( temp was -6c / 21f first test, -11c / 12f on second day, and -14c / 6f on the third day)...
I also seated the bullet farther out at 2.790" while Hodgdon's seating depth was at 2.760".

On the other hand... Their H-1000 data with the same bullet was quite close in velocity to my own testing after taking into consideration 50fps loss from the 2" shorter barrel and the cold weather I was testing the H-1000 in. (I do lot's of shooting in the Winter. No waiting for the barrel's to cool off !!!)



RaySendero Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 18:27:42
quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

Since the recipe makers have taken over publishing Reloading manuals, reloading data does not transverse in to accurate recipes.




recipe, recipes ???

MIKESBARRO Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 15:35:59
Duh...senior moment

Mike
Land_Owner Posted - Jul 27 2017 : 14:29:19
We cannot recreate the temperature, humidity, altimeter, barametric pressure, et al conditions within which they tested at their indoor range, (assumed) through their "dimentionally correct" test barrel, and "calibrated" chronometer, against your results on an outdoor range (assumed), through a "nominally correct" barrel. So, variation is the spice of life.

Add powder for greater velocity if the new charge is within the Mfg's published range and test again. I believe your round went "bang" and the paper target was hit. Sounds like a WIN to me.

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