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Gw hunter Posted - May 22 2017 : 18:16:10
Decided to get one of these and check the headspace on my reloads. The chart doesn't have my caliber so i took the average shoulder width (.4075). The bushings available are .4000 and .4200. When I use the .4000 my headspace is .020. When I use the .4200 bushing the headspace measures .022. Which bushing should I go with? Am I good here? Close enough? Any opinion is appreciated... Thanks
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Ireload2 Posted - Sep 05 2017 : 10:48:50
You cannot possibly know that because you have zero means to measure the FL sized cases. You have a maximum limit due to the use of your rifle chamber as an acceptance gage. However you can size the cases too short and you will not have a ghost of a chance knowing how short they are.
In addition your cases vary due to variations in speed of sizing, length of dwell at the top of the sizing stroke, and the amount of case lube you use. So within any given lot of brass that you size you have cases that will be a snug fit and cases that have .002 to .003 clearance. And you have no means to tell one case from another.

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

Because I set my sizer dies to not set back the fired case shoulders...I do not load to a factory setting but I load for the individual chambers.

Shastaboat Posted - Jun 19 2017 : 20:21:43
Because I set my sizer dies to not set back the fired case shoulders...I do not load to a factory setting but I load for the individual chambers.
Ireload2 Posted - Jun 19 2017 : 20:10:41
You are the only one claiming that you have no headspace without the ability to measure that same characteristic.

So the question is how do you know you have no headspace?

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

If there is no headspace then why do you want to try and measure something that is nonexistent?

Shastaboat Posted - May 27 2017 : 11:38:30
If there is no headspace then why do you want to try and measure something that is nonexistent?
magman Posted - May 27 2017 : 10:35:46
Midway has a L.E. Wilson Adjustable Case Length Headspace Gauge 7mm Weatherby Magnum & manufacturer's instructions. Get a Go-no-go gauge too!
cheap
fast
good
you only get two of the three.
mm
mtmuley Posted - May 26 2017 : 18:38:48
Shasta, why are you so bitter? mtmuley
Ireload2 Posted - May 26 2017 : 14:51:39
No you still haven't got it.

What you have you say is "GOOD ENOUGH" but you have no clue what it actually measures.

You are not hand fitting anything because each round can vary due to minor things like the amount of case lube used, the speed that you operate the handle of the press and the dwell time the ram is at the top of the stroke.

If you don't want to know no one can help you. But until you measure you do not know how sloppy your lack of craftsmanship really is. You are just playing the "good enough for my grand pappy" game that you hear from hill billy hand loaders.

Don't give me that artist and true machinist garbage because you are not one of those.
I worked 5 years in machine shops running lathes and mills while getting an engineering degree and then I spent 40 years as a manufacturing engineer. I am responsible for millions of dollars in machined parts and assemblies every year. Don't try to BS me.


quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

I guess it is the difference in hand fitting vs. using a CNC machine. With one method you are an artist and true machinist. With the CNC modern technology you are a computer and machine operator. I'll grant you that the CNC method will produce more consistent products but the hand fitted product does work as it is intended. I'm so happy for you handloaders that are tuned into knowing what everything measures even if in the long run the figures may be irrelevant to the total product.

Shastaboat Posted - May 26 2017 : 10:25:39
I guess it is the difference in hand fitting vs. using a CNC machine. With one method you are an artist and true machinist. With the CNC modern technology you are a computer and machine operator. I'll grant you that the CNC method will produce more consistent products but the hand fitted product does work as it is intended. I'm so happy for you handloaders that are tuned into knowing what everything measures even if in the long run the figures may be irrelevant to the total product.
Zero333 Posted - May 25 2017 : 18:52:32
Trust but VERIFY



Ireload2 Posted - May 25 2017 : 15:41:35
How do you know you have no measurable headspace if you cannot measure it?
You are talking total nonsense. Kissing is not a method or unit of measurement no matter how much confidence you have in it.
I can tell you right now that your FL sized cases vary at least .002" in length from the head to the datum line.

I should know because I used the same method that you use for about 40 years on about 30 different cartridges yet found that my sized cases were not as well set up as I expected.
Until you get a little more open minded about measuring your sized cases you will never know EXACTLY what you have.

I could put you on a witness stand and you will only have 2 ways to answer the question.
You can testify that you do not know how much clearance your FL sized case have or you can lie. Because without measurement you really do not know. It is called reality...


quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

quote:
Originally posted by Ireload2

How do you know that you have no measurable headspace if you do not have a means to measure your ammo?

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

I'm confused. With my handloads on every cartridge I load I have no measureable headspace. Why not load ammo with no headspace instead of loading ammo that might have headspace in your weapons?





By setting up my full length sizer die to just kiss the shoulder of fired brass using the smoke or magic mark shoulder method. This method has been used "FOREVER" by handloaders and requires no gauges or measuring tools of any kind. It's called matching your ammo to "your" weapon.

mtmuley Posted - May 25 2017 : 13:30:44
The gauge accomplishes the same thing as the "old" ways of doing it. I like having a number that I can set to. mtmuley
Shastaboat Posted - May 25 2017 : 09:00:23
quote:
Originally posted by Ireload2

How do you know that you have no measurable headspace if you do not have a means to measure your ammo?

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

I'm confused. With my handloads on every cartridge I load I have no measureable headspace. Why not load ammo with no headspace instead of loading ammo that might have headspace in your weapons?





By setting up my full length sizer die to just kiss the shoulder of fired brass using the smoke or magic mark shoulder method. This method has been used "FOREVER" by handloaders and requires no gauges or measuring tools of any kind. It's called matching your ammo to "your" weapon.
Zero333 Posted - May 25 2017 : 04:15:50
I concur with Ireload2.

Just load and shoot the new brass.
Ireload2 Posted - May 24 2017 : 09:09:54
The numbers that you mentioned demonstrate how much your cases stretch when you fire a new case in your chamber.
There is no reason to resize new cases if they are going to stretch .020 anyway.

What you need to establish is the exact length of fired cases from your rifle. Sometimes a case might have to be fired several times to take on the exact length of the chamber.

You can also trim and FL size a longer case like a .300 Win Mag until your bolt will just close with some drag on the case. This will tell you the exact chamber length with the gage.

Then set your FL die to size your brass to be exactly the same length as your chamber minus .001". The .001" clearance will enable trouble free chambering in a hunting rifle. If you load ammo for a lever, pump or autoloader you may want more clearance of around .002 to .003 to insure trouble free chambering in those action types.

For range use I usually set my ammo with no clearance for use in a bolt gun.



quote:
Originally posted by Gw hunter

Sorry... That's the difference between a new case and a fired case. I guess that is why you need to resize even new brass.

Ireload2 Posted - May 24 2017 : 08:55:03
How do you know that you have no measurable headspace if you do not have a means to measure your ammo?

quote:
Originally posted by Shastaboat

I'm confused. With my handloads on every cartridge I load I have no measureable headspace. Why not load ammo with no headspace instead of loading ammo that might have headspace in your weapons?


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